Curse

Renegade26 · Dec 13, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

This is my opinion only, no1 elses. This is what I think should be done to some elites, aswell as my opinion on each elite from each three games.

Elite Skill Analysis

Cleave: A nice skill but rarely used because it is nothing special at all. Spammable with other methods of adrenaline gain but not as useful as certain other elites.
3/10: To make this skill better give it natural 20% armour piercing, or double effect from strength. I personally think that this skill is underpowered and needs that extra push.

Devastating Hammer: Good skill and is fine as is.
8/10: N/A

Battle Rage: An interesting skill that fails to bring anything special. Good for building adrenaline in a short time, but making it a stance weakens it heavily. It means no Frenzy or Flurry for even more adrenaline that you are wanting, which is why you brought this elite and on other.
4/10: Make it a non-stance so it cannot be removed as easily and possibly make it slightly longer.

Hundred Blades: Yet again adrenaline gain, for sword. A nice pve skill for adrenaline and damage but is nothing special.
6/10: Possibly add in bleeding or crpippling to moving foes that it hits.

"Charge!": Used by runners and henchman, this is a reasonably good that never fails to bring what it says; a shout wide speed buff. Shout makes it stackable. Good all round but weak in pvp where a simple rush or sprint would work well aswell.
6/10: Maybe add in for every second u run u gain one adrenaline. Makes sense realistically and also accents what this skill is about: rushing into battle ready to kill.

Eviscerate: Good skill that recently got nerfed. Still a very good option for any axe warrior.
9/10: N/A

Backbreaker: As with most warrior hammer elites, this one is good. I see no problems with it, but it doesn't see much use anywhere.
7/10: Maybe lower adrenaline cost. 10 is very high, especially for a hammer warrior.

Earth Shaker: Works well, but doesn't see much use.
7/10: N/A

Bull's Charge: Very little use of this in pve or pvp, with damage skills that are more suited for a warrior.
5/10: Possibly increase the movement speed to 33%.

Defy Pain: Adrenaline based Endure pain. Works well for tanking in pve, and not a good skill for pvp.
7/10: The health is lost which makes it unreliable. Possibly make it give you (real) health at the start.

Dwarven Battle Stance: Got a well needed buff but compared to other hammer elites that can cause KD this really doesnt cut it.
3/10: Knockdown is way better than interuption in most cases. Possibly make all attack skills cause KD, or increase attack speed to 33%.

Flourish: This one is pathetic for warriors, unless using a secondary that would benefit from this. Power Attack spam is hardly desirable.
3/10: Limited use for a warrior, but maybe cause adrenaline gain aswell, or recharge stances and attack skills for energy.

Warrior's Endurance: Has also seen use on secondaries, namely the assassin. Energy gaining for a warrior elite is worse than adrenaline gain.
3/10: I see no hope for this with Flourish available aswell. Just no need.

Gladiator's Defense: Best pve tank stance imo, with short recharge and damage for 75% block.
7/10: N/A for pve; Pvp use is limited.

"Victory is Mine!": The nerf makes this a more warrior style shout now. Stack up conditions and you gain enreyg and health.
6/10: Very counterable with an RC prot on the enemy team. Any form of condition removal renders this almost useless, but adrenaine gain would make this a less risky shout.

Skull Crack: Dazed is never bad. Never. just needs one interupt which is not hard to achieve on most classes.
8/10: I like it as it is, but others dont seem to. Lower adrenaline cost to 7 or 8 possibly.

Triple Chop: Works well for adrenaline gain and damage in pve. The axe Hundred blades tbh.
8/10: Very nice skill for adrenaline. Lower recharge to make it on par to the non elite cyclone axe.#

Whirling Axe: Failed as an elite. Eviscerate>Cleave>This. Simple food chain.
1/10!: Only so low because of the other options available! Terrible elite that needs one adrenaline gain or more damage. Possibly double gain from strength like healing touch to divine favour.

Enraged Smash: Nice damage if you meet the conditions needed. No KD for a hammer elite makes this weak in pvp but good in pve.
7/10: N/A

Forceful Blow: Gives the weakened condition that many hammer skills need for certain abilities. Works well in a few situations.
4/10: Maybe give a cover condition like disease(!!), or crippling even. Possibly change the name

Primal Rage: Often voted the worst elite in the game. I would not disagree. Disabling skills removes adrenaline.
1/10!: Maybe at 10-13 strength attribute there should be no skill disabling.

Dragon Slash: Works well and sees much use in many areas of the game. I see no problems.
8/10: N/A

Quivering Blade: Also works well, especially with plague touch against guardian spammers or rangers/warriors.
7/10: Its main effect is dazed, which can be hard to achieve against a smart enemy that adapts quickly.

Auspicious Parry: Had its uses then got nerfed from what I remember. I see on hope for this elite which has very limited use.
3/10: who knows...

Shove: Lose everything for a KD. Not as good as just using a hammer, but 'sins use it to keep a target down.
4/10: Make it lose all energy not adrenaline. This would cause more use for warriors than non-warrior classes.

"Coward!": Counter productive; if you can hit them for energy then theyre probably not moving.
6/10: Use this on a running enemy for adrenaline gain until its maxed out. This way the cowards are forced to stop even if they dont stop running.

Decapitate: Works well for spiking a target but you cant follow it with anything quickly. Energy based shouts that give adrenaline qiuckly could be used with weapon swapping or ether signet from mesmer.
8/10: A nice option over eviscerate.

Magehunter's Smash: Haven't seen it yet; doubt i will soon. Poor elite that gives nothing special. Also has a large condition to achieve. Removing enchantments is often better than punishing them
4/10: Add damage bonus or lower recharge.

Charging Strike: An original idea that works well in pvp.
6/10: The idea is nice but lacks eliteness.

Headbutt: Humourous and useful. Plague touch mixes with this nicely, but low damage makes that the only use for this. Shove-like.
4/10: A gimmick is all. Lower cost tbh.

Magehunter Strike: Elite non missing power attack if hitting enchanted foes. Just no...
3/10: A skill with a nice icon that just brings nothing to the match you play in with this.

Rage of the Ntouka: Great way to prepare for a battle with a patient group/heroes. Its use in pvp is lessened by the lack of an agro circle :S, but the adrenaline gain is good.
6/10: N/A.

Crippling Slash: A sword who can spam cripple. Dwarfed by Youre all alone.
3/10: Give this a damage bonus aswell.

Soldier's Stance: An IAS that is easy to keep up. Lasts a short amount of time but the recharge means it can be kept up indefinately, energy permitting.
6/10: Cant really complain about this. Does what it says and nothing more.

Steady Stance: Only good with Drunken/Desperation Blow. Its other uses are non-existant tbh.
3/10: Cant see any hope for it.

"You're All Alone!": It was seen as overpowered, not that I see that. Works well, but heroes fail to use it well at all.
7/10: Nice elite.

lyra_song · Dec 13, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Ok...thats great.

So wheres the suggestion?

Renegade26 · Dec 13, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

How about reading the suggestions part of each elite that I wrote. Just maybe read it... a little at least...

lyra_song · Dec 13, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I read all of it. I actually like Whiring Axe though :P

It doesn't really feel youre making suggestions there. Its all very vague and kinda wishy washy.

Why dont you take out all the skills that you think dont need any changes and specify your suggestions and compare it to the old version vs your suggested version.

Edit: That comment on Shove is gonna get you flamed. Just a warning ;P

Clawdius_Talonious · Dec 13, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I read all of it. I actually like Whiring Axe though :P

I do, too. With my Furious mod I often get to use it back to back, and there is potential for a combo with a necro (or a W/N, of course) packing Mark of Fury.

Gregslot · Dec 14, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

so you want to make the warrior the most overpowering class in the game?!
i agree with some stuff you said, only some, like 3 or 2

Halmyr · Dec 14, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Like Gregslot said I only agree with 2 or 3 of these thing.

The main thing is how you use these skills thats matter, for example, Primal rage is one of my favorit skill for capping (I have adept skill hunter title by the way), put 15-16 strengh with 12-13 axe and tell me primal rage is not good. Yes there a 10 sec recharge for every thing, but with your skill bar include strengh signet, rez signet and many cap signet as you need, its not bad.

Bowstring Badass · Dec 14, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I remember when YaA went out of the agro range across the radar.

VitisVinifera · Dec 14, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

auspicious parry totally owns for farming bosses. With this one elite, one can now safely solo virtually every boss assn, war, and dervish.

10/10, situational

Archon Calran · Dec 14, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

I actually like Cleave and Whirling Axe because of the low ammount of adren they take. I also agree with Vit with Auspicious Parry, i usually use it with 10 tactics and it takes in 3 adren for each hit that is blocked, which is very useful. You are also able to block many attacks using this.

Spader · Dec 14, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Assain would still use shove they have 4 pips and if there running a build simular to the one that i use they could regain energy wiithin a reasonable amount of time.

16 dagger 9 crit thats 41 % to regan 2 energy

It knocks out all non attack skills which is annoying for any class since you might have something like a res sig. Having shove be lose all energy would detour warriors that use there secondarys that use energy. Thats what 6 classes for the most part.

draxynnic · Dec 14, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Shove does require a certain degree of thoght to use.

What I did when I first capped it was combined it with Belly Smash. Yes, you can use Belly Smash off hammer knockdowns as well, but Shove/Belly Smash lets you start the fight with the enemy blinded rather than waiting for the adrenaline to build up (and if you're only attackers are melee, you can follow up with a Crude Swing).

When you get down to it, it's an on-demand knockdown that can be used any time (apart from within 20 seconds of the last time you used it, of course) - as opposed to the other Warrior knockdowns that are either situational, require adrenaline, or both (and even Elementalist knockdowns are either conditional or cost Exhaustion).

Your proposed change would remove the Shove/Belly Smash combo, but on the other hand it would open up a Shove/Steelfang Slash combo - however, with a build using that combination I'd be inclined to cut out the middleman and go straight for Dragon Slash.

Ulivious The Reaper · Dec 14, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

you obviously have not seen the amount of nice damage skills that make a great combo with warriors endurance, and the plus side you don't have to worry about gaining adrenaline and the skills are typically spammable... however these suggestions are nice in general, i'd love a buff to whirling axe and cleave

Bankai · Dec 14, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Hmmm. I remember listening to the last WoC and all 3 guests said they always used Cleave.

Hmmm. Odd. It never sees play indeed.

jesh · Dec 14, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

I actually agree with most of this, but:
*I think that Hundred Blades should have half the AoE of Triple Chop, with +17ish per hit, to better compare with the axe version.
It's really not fair to have these two elites as they are. Either buff HB or make Triple Chop worse.
*An alternative would be to make HB deal bleeding in an the same area(half of all adjacent), then you wouldn't need to take that terrible skill Gash.
I really would prefer the added damage to bleeding, though. Maybe it even needs the same AoE as Triple Chop, seeing how swords can almost never reach axe damage..

*Shove is fine as is, I think. Maybe the recharge should be 10 instead. I mean.. it's elite, isn't it? It should at least be worth it.
*Soldier's Stance needs to last 20+ seconds like comparable skills.
*Charging Strike needs to work better with attack skills.
*Cleave and Whirling Axe should suck, and they do.. everyone knows axes aren't for DPS. I wouldn't complain about a buff, but it would have to be pretty major for me to justify the adrenaline loss on my warrior. (more spammed = less adrenaline total)
*Auspicious Parry could be good I think.. if it was crossed with Protector's Defense. Make it block for all adjacent allies *and* yourself, and do an extra 20ish damage. That would be hot.

A Leprechaun · Dec 14, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I have to say that I dont agree with a lot of the stuff you are saying, for example I find magehunter strike one the best elites to use on a hammer warrior due to its 1/2 second cast. And headbutt is great as it does good damage and cant be blocked or evaded, although i agree the cost should be lowered a bit. Then you say decapitate is amazing when i simply cant stand it.
I also agree with jesh, hb needs a buff even though i love it atm. Just having cyclone axe range would make it even more amazing for gaining adrenaline, or adding bleed to its attacks would be good.

Anyway thats just a few of my views.

~A Leprechaun~

Renegade26 · Dec 14, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

I'll try and make it clearer what I was trying to achieve; I'm going to try and go through each class showing why some elites are better/worse than others in most situations. Ill work on Ranger next, a class that I have much more experience with.

N19h7m4r3 · Dec 14, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

I like swords, I like playing with swords, I like killing with swords, I like Hundred Blades....would love it if it did some extra besides hit twice and hit all adjacent targets.

Extra damage or an effect = I love swords.

jesh · Dec 14, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

*wishes for sword chucks*

*and a better HB*

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 17, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

I am a firm advocate of Auspicious Parry. It's an awesome skill.

Think about the use of the skill. What doesn't attack you? This is the adrenaline battery stance.This, with both riposte skills, and you do major blocking of damage with the added option of adrenaline gain. This skill is awesome even with the recharge slightly being slower.